"Neil R. Ormos" <>
Sent: 6/8/2001 10:18:05 AM

Re: [gpsstash] Re: Vilifying Irish (Was: GEOCACHING Trademark application by Grounded Inc.)

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 wrote:

> --- In gpsstash@y..., "Neil R. Ormos" wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Jeremy Hurst wrote:

> > > Interesting... Well if Jeremy Irish knew what was good for
> > > the sport he wouldn't be trade-marking 'geocaching'.

> > > Looks like he has one thing in mind. I'm glad I'll be
> > > launching my own totally free site, but I am concerned
> > > that if he manages to register 'geocaching' that I cannot
> > > use that word in my company name. Ah... that's right, I'm
> > > based in Australia, America trademarks mean nothing over
> > > here. :)

> > > 1x to the real geocachers, 0x to Jeremy Irish.

> > I don't see the point in attempting to vilify Mr. Irish.
[ . . . ]
> > As for the reported application seeking a federal trademark
> > registration in the United States, apparently no
> > registration has yet issued and the application may even be
> > abandoned. I have heard of no instances where Mr. Irish has
> > complained about or threatened action against anyone for
> > trademark infringement.

> wrong! I am the owner of and he has done
> nothing but let me know in the past that if I used the
> word Geocaching on my main board I was in trouble, not to
> mention what happened with Buxley.

I think I was quite clear in my original remarks that I was
not stating that, in fact, no trademark threats had been
made, but rather that I simply hadn't heard of any. Your
message quoted above was the first I've heard of your
incident, but perhaps it has been mentioned earlier and I
just missed it. As to the Buxley maps, I thought that
dispute related to copyright and data extraction issues; I'm
not aware of any threats there regarding trademark rights,
but perhaps my attention lapsed there too.

> And who left it to Jeremy to decide what is good for the
> sport and what isn't?

Well, it certainly wasn't me. IMO, the fact that he has
created a repository of information about caches and a nice
web site front-end gives him no particular authority to
speak for anyone but himself and his company. I happen to
disagree with him on a number of issues.

However, the point of my earlier comment was that filing an
application for a federal trademark registration was not, in
itself, evidence of any nefarious motive, and accordingly,
the churlish, infantile invective of the post to which I had
responded was misplaced.

As an aside, I think the hobby would be well served if
interested parties would agree on a standard data definition
for cache information, and someone would create and maintain
a public-domain database that anyone could link to or
extract, in order to present or use the data in any way they
saw fit. That way, although they presumably could use it in
some commercial way (I can't imagine now what that would
be), it would be impossible for any one entity to obtain
exclusive rights to the data.