Sent: 3/5/2006 4:51:27 PM

Re: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.

Correct, Jeremy is Richard Cranium.

The drama continues not so much with Dave any longer, but with anyone that
claims credit for anything related to Geocaching. Richard Crainum whines
and claims credit, deletes posts on his forum that contradict what he think
is the story and the world goes on. I'm prefer to not do business with him,
but realistically, that isn't an option. I really Navicache and liked
Buxley's but is the popular site.

Oh well, life goes on.

----- Original Message -----
From: "navicach"
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.

> Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching
> forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands
> and what could happen to them as a result of Geocaching. He knew that one
> day it could and would get to be as big as it is today.
> He never was given his fair due by those on that Geocaching website
> (meaning
> the creators)
> You have Dave who wanted to protect the outdoors and you have Jeremy who
> wanted to make a buck.
> There were some pretty harsh things said to Dave over this time frame.
> I have been Geocaching and involved with it before the sites were ever
> created, back when you could only find fragments of chatter in the news
> group. One person came up with the term and another ran with it and said
> he
> "coined" the term, making sure to quickly apply for copyright.
> Then you have Buxley who I have chatted with several times over the years.
> He has by far the best maps in the world for Geocaching and all he wanted
> to
> do was to provide a fun and accurate means for people to locate caches,
> then
> he was shut down. But not before his mapping idea was stolen and used on
> that site also. This has also happened to my own site at
> The icons you see on each cache page showing if park, water, fee, etc, was
> created by us at navicache, but now they are also listed there.
> Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We were
> created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what happens in the
> sport.
> If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any price
> they
> wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an alternate source.
> He is famous for never giving credit when due, but takes all of it he can
> get his hands on.
> I did a national news story with ABC and Peter Jennings a while back where
> I
> took a full camera crew and Dan Harris out caching. During this time which
> was well over 6 hours for a 6 minute story on air I mentionded both
> and also Buxleys maps a few dozen times. I just wanted to
> get
> the word out about Geocaching as a sport and not as a business. When it
> went
> to air all over the world the edited version showed my website at
> navicache
> as well as the actual cache hunt with me and my family, not once did it
> mention the other sites even though I pushed them just as much as my own.
> When Jeremy saw this he quickly posted in his forum how I made it a point
> to
> mention only my website and not his. He seemed to have forgotten that
> things
> do end up on the editing room floor. But over the years of me mentioning
> his
> site in newspapers and magazines I have been in, not once have I seen him
> return the favor of plugging anyone elses website other than his unless
> there was a profit to be gained.
> Heck, it's a business to him and I can't blame a man for making a dollar,
> but there are more respectable ways of doing it without sticking the knife
> in the other guys back.
> Dave needs to be recognized as the Guru of Geocaching, give him what he
> deserves and respect his opinion and leave it at that.
> Just my two (perhaps 3) cents.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth! Leary"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
>>I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and
>> My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may
>> have
>> been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
>> However,
>> in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave,
>> I
>> have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication
>> and
>> that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name
>> has
>> not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
>> many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
>> need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
>> As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both
>> Dave
>> and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.)
>> They
>> are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
>> genesis
>> and success of the game.
>> Cheers,
>> Seth!
>> "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
>> drama continues over at They happily promote your video and Jack
>> Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving
>> credit
>> to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone"
>> in
>> their own brief history published on their site."
>> The gpsstash page
>> Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> The gpsstash page
> Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
> Yahoo! Groups Links